Why We Don’t Fight Red Light Camera Tickets

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I hate red light cameras. These automated taxing agents are the wretched offspring of nanny state fascism and government greed. Google has placed my site near the top for red light camera searches. Many of you come here looking for help. I share your disgust for red lights cameras. However, I do not take red light tickets. I want to help, but the numbers don’t make sense (for you or me).

This is not an accident. The government designed the system to induce massive give up among defendants. If the government was going to steal a million dollars from one person, you can bet that person would fight the case. It’s much easier for the government to steal $1 from a million drivers.

Most red light ticket are between $50-$150. To fight a red light ticket case you have to waste at least one whole day at court in front of a unaccountable administrative judge whose primary duty is to raise money for the city. This judge is going to find you guilty even if you hire OJ’s defense team. After your hearing (no jury trials allowed) you may have some limited right of appeal, but that takes more time and another court appearance. Can you afford to miss a day of work to save $100? How about two days?

I can’t try a case for $100. I certainly can’t appeal a case for that much. There are attorneys who offer discount ticket defense, but that requires a volume practice. I am allergic to massive amounts of cases.

The simple equation for most drivers is
Cost of Paying Ticket < Cost (Time and Money) Fighting Ticket= Pay Ticket
Throw in the fact that most red light tickets are not reported to DPS and do not result in any "points" or a DL suspension and you have a system designed for large scale petty theft. The penalties involved are not high enough for defendants to hire a lawyer or spend the time and energy required to assert their rights. Taking time away from work and obligations to fight the government in a ticket case is not an option.

If red light cameras are allowed to exist in Texas then defendants should have the protections afforded other defendants in ticket cases (jury trial etc). If this is really about “public safety” and not taxation, than a little due process won’t hurt.

My advise to the public; find a traffic ticket lawyer to fight your case and vote against the morons who allowed these cameras to invade our communities.

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27 responses to “Why We Don’t Fight Red Light Camera Tickets”

  1. Eric Ogunbase says:
    March 3, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Hi Robert. While I am against people running red lights in a dangerous manner, causing dangerous situations for other drivers, the cameras are over the top. Plus, cash hungry jurisdictions can rig the timing of the yellow lights to maximize revenue.

    There is a spray that can be purchased which minimizes the effectiveness of the cameras by reflecting the light from the flash, thus ruining the photo and rendering it unusable. I haven’t linked to it, but a simple Google search will yield results.

  2. W. W Woodward says:
    March 5, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Robert,
    My number one objection to the red light cameras is: the person who receives and is required to pay the so-called “administrative debt” (ticket) may not have been operating the vehicle when the photo was snapped.

    Please, correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand the summons (read bill) is mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle as the camera isn’t capable of identifying the driver.

    The registered owner, who may have used the vehicle for a trade-in on a new car several months earlier and has no earthly idea of the current owner’s identity is now required to either spread his/her legs, allow the state’s assault, and just “think of England”. Or, spend several hours and probably several dollars in lost wages proving his innocence in the face of an inanimate object’s testimony.

  3. A.J. says:
    March 13, 2009 at 9:39 am

    At my administrative hearing I was told that I have no constitutional rights, I am only there to be told that I am liable for the fine.

  4. Todd says:
    March 16, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    I was cited for making a right turn on red without coming to a complete stop. (I was nearly completely stopped.) Was I technically in violation of the law? Probably yes. Should the government cite drivers for such petty offenses? No, in my opinion. Like you say, this is a revenue scheme.

  5. Mimi says:
    March 19, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    What about the right to question your accuser? Guy who installed the camera, or reviewed the pictures, or authorized the ticket? How do they get around that requirement?

  6. Gene says:
    May 13, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    I recently was cited for failure to stop at a red light(caught on camera. I do not plan on paying this fine until I get my day in court
    the defense I’m going with is pretty simple in my opinion. 1) where is my accuser? 2) where is the calibration certificate for the camera that witnessed this violation? was it calibrated by an individual who is properly trained and i so where is his/her training certification and is it still current 3) was the weather conditions taken into account for the violation? could I have safely stopped my which was traveling at 20mph in the distance before entering the intersection?
    I would like to have records o other drivers who have been caught by the same camera to establish any patterns as to the accuracy of said camera 4) there is not even a time date or location for me to appear to contest this which is a direct violation of my right to Due Process.

  7. Todd F says:
    May 14, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    The City of Dallas is short sighted on this issue. I received two tickets for turning right on a red light at the same corner of Lover’s and Central. The first one was dismissed when I went down to contest. I was angry I had to spend money on parking and take time out of my day to do this so I found out on the second violation I could just write a letter. This was a mistake. They probably never even read the thing. I got a letter back saying I was guilty and to pay the fine. I am a volunteer for the city and will be resigning my position because of the violation of my rights and the lack of diligence done specifically to screw me out of $100. I do that much worth of work for the city in a day. They can have themselves.

  8. Bryan Hamric says:
    June 18, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    The Richardson ordinance has a presumption that the registered owner was the driver, but it is not rebuttable at the hearing. He agreed that I rebutted the presumption, but still held me liable. Is that due process? What does rebuttable mean if you are still liable after proving you were not the driver? This law is a mockery of the constitutional right to due process.

  9. THE POLICE says:
    June 23, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    Listen… the concept is a great idea BUT there is no one monitoring the implementation. The towns/cities using these devices are using them in a corrupt manner. I’m a police officer in Illinois and one of my fellow officers received TWO citations for going through two “Red lights” (monitored by redlight cameras) WHILE IN A FUNERAL PROCESSION. His vehicle was properly marked with the appropriate sign and he brought a copy of the paperwork and the LAW with him to contest the ticket. The judge still found him guilty and he had to pay for both tickets. Most of these cameras in the Illinois (especially Chicago area) are set to photograph the drivers once the light turns RED. So even if you crossed the line while the light is YELLOW, you may be getting a ticket if the light turned RED before you made it all the way across. This removes “officer discretion” from the mix. (Also removes “common sense.”) Obviously people cant always make it through before the light turns RED. The police know this. Most officers will NOT write a ticket unless the light turned RED before the driver crossed into the intersection. These ticket reviewers are giving everyone tickets AND there is no “Due Process”… You can NOT fight these tickets. Now they are putting out these speed cameras on the expressway that are supposed to issue citations for 1 MPH over the limit!!! The police dont do that BECAUSE IT’s INSANITY!!! Vehicle speedometers are NOT all 100 % accurate. Plus NO ONE drives the exact same speed ALL THE TIME. It’s impossible. People need to stand together on this issue and write to there congressman/woman to complain. The way that this program is being run has nothing to do with speeding or obeying traffic laws. It’s all about $$$!!! The government needs to step in and set up legitimate guidelines that they MUST follow. Good luck everyone and keep up the fight. (THE POLICE)

  10. Genevieve Chasse says:
    August 20, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    Hello Robert,
    Now while im only a teenager i know alot of things on how to be a safe driver and such.
    Unfortunatley just yesterday when i was picking my dad up from the airport, I ran a red light that had a camera. I tried to make it before it turned red but just didnt cut it. Now normally im driving at speed limit or below unlike most other teens behind the wheel and i will fully pay my dad back for the ticket but at the same time i understand that red light cameras are over the top.
    I cant actually recall how many times my friends or family have said that the red light cameras are an invastion into our privcy and so on. Besides there are just as accidents and red light runners as there were before cameras. so in truth they arent really doing much good.

  11. Jose says:
    September 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    ??? My ? is if we dont pay this ticket what is the repercussion of my action? From my understanding they cannot arrest you or fine you any more than the ticket cost and the late fee. I believe here in Jersey Village TX, next to Houston then can also report it on your credit score.

  12. Mike says:
    September 11, 2009 at 11:15 am

    I too just recieved a government bill (A.K.A. red light ticket$) for my failure to come to a complete stop while turning right in Jersey village. I drive alot with my job, and I am more aware of my surroundings than most drivers since I dont text while driving. Never had a red light ticket but expect to have many more if this camera crap continues. Maybe I’ll get out and do a dance to prove I’ve come to a complete stop next time

  13. Charles D. says:
    September 18, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Try this one for size, I just received a government bill from Irving P.D. today (9/19/2009) for a traffic violation dated 10/07/2007 (Right on Red crock).

    They must really be hurting for revenue if their digging back 2 years to find every violation they can find.

  14. James Patterson says:
    October 6, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    When I first received my government bill in the mail I went to the hearing conducted by a hearing officer who told me that even if I protest the Judge will still find me liable. I believe his position in this scam is to deter those who feel this is wrong from requesting a jury trial and he’s no one who can do nothing but waste your time. I proceeded to request a jury trial anyway determined to fight this. I attended my first hearing in front of a Fort Worth Judge who repeatedly argued with the prosecuting attorney when he defended my constitutional right to a jury trial. The judge also denied the opinion of the Attorney General. This prosecuting attorney also said on tape “Judge, I know this throws a monkey wrench in the program were trying to do down here”, tell me this is not a scam to thieve money from everyday people! This Judge laughed at me repeatedly on tape. She isn’t a Judge we voted for, she was appointed by the City Council. Probably somebody’s sister, aunt, mother. She is unprofessional, rude, lies and doesn’t even know what the constitution says. She had to ask the prosecuting attorney! Something she should have known when she took her oath of office to preserve and defend the constitution first and the laws second. I just attended my final hearing this week in Fort Worth where I was completely railroaded. I was told by the Judge and in writing from the courts that I would have an opportunity to present my evidence which in this hearing the Judge recanted by saying “I never said that”…..it was on the tape I pulled from public record! I was constantly interupted by a new prosecuting attorney for this hearing who yelled “No Foundation” nearly every time I spoke. I brought with me video footage that I took of the red light camera cycle and how the yellow light timing is inconsistent even though the law says that the yellow light should be the same 24/7. The judge would not hear it claiming it not relevant. What? She also claimed that suddenly a report of maintenance appeared as sworn testimoney that the light where I received my ticket was checked that very day to be working properly. I know this is falsified information because I pulled those records months prior to this hearing. And to top it all off, I believe a law up for change in 2011 is to deny access to public records! Take some more of my freedom will ya?
    After much complaining to the City Council I was told by two members to “Sue the City” knowing very well that there isn’t a single lawyer willing to give up his bread and butter with the city to try my case. Once a free country, now individual city dictatorships!

  15. James Patterson says:
    October 6, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    When I first received my government bill in the mail I went to the hearing conducted by a hearing officer who told me that even if I protest the Judge will still find me liable. I believe his position in this scam is to deter those who feel this is wrong from requesting a jury trial and he’s no one who can do nothing but waste your time. I proceeded to request a jury trial anyway determined to fight this. I attended my first hearing in front of a Fort Worth Judge who repeatedly argued with the prosecuting attorney when he defended my constitutional right to a jury trial. The judge also denied the opinion of the Attorney General. This prosecuting attorney also said on tape “Judge, I know this throws a monkey wrench in the program were trying to do down here”, tell me this is not a scam to thieve money from everyday people! This Judge laughed at me repeatedly on tape. She isn’t a Judge we voted for, she was appointed by the City Council. Probably somebody’s sister, aunt, mother. She is unprofessional, rude, lies and doesn’t even know what the constitution says. She had to ask the prosecuting attorney! Something she should have known when she took her oath of office to preserve and defend the constitution first and the laws second. I just attended my final hearing this week in Fort Worth where I was completely railroaded. I was told by the Judge and in writing from the courts that I would have an opportunity to present my evidence which in this hearing the Judge recanted by saying “I never said that”…..it was on the tape I pulled from public record! I was constantly interupted by a new prosecuting attorney for this hearing who yelled “No Foundation” nearly every time I spoke. I brought with me video footage that I took of the red light camera cycle and how the yellow light timing is inconsistent even though the law says that the yellow light should be the same 24/7. The judge would not hear it claiming it not relevant. What? She also claimed that suddenly a report of maintenance appeared as sworn testimoney that the light where I received my ticket was checked that very day to be working properly. I know this is falsified information because I pulled those records months prior to this hearing. And to top it all off, I believe a law up for change in 2011 is to deny access to public records! Take some more of my freedom will ya?
    After much complaining to the City Council I was told by two members to “Sue the City” knowing very well that there isn’t a single lawyer willing to take this on. Once a free country, now individual city dictatorships!

  16. JY says:
    October 27, 2009 at 2:46 am

    $50-$150? Here in Montebello, CA, my wife just received her bill for rolling through a right on a red. $448. From the video we viewed at photonotice.com, she didn’t stop completely, but $448 is ridiculously over the top. She has a small business and can’t afford to close the business to go to court just to lose anyway. $448 is ridiculous…I can’t get over that amount.

  17. Lee says:
    December 7, 2009 at 3:09 am

    I agree with the previous person. I am in California as well. I just got a rolling stop ticket turning right. My ticket is $532 if I don’t want to go to traffic school, and $585 if I do!! But get this $585 does NOT include traffic school fees. I don’t understand why I am paying $53 extra for? Just for the RIGHT to go to traffic school? It is ridiculous. I looked at the photos, the one photo showing my face also shows I was looking at the left to check on ongoing traffic. THe picture that showed my license plate also showed my brake light on and my right signal light on. So apparenly I was doing what I was supposed to do, except maybe not stopping long enough!!

  18. G G says:
    December 23, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Yep, It’s just a local revenue generating engine. Just received a red light camera ticket in Plano TX. Can clearly see in the online video that it was a rolling stop – right turn. Great video, can even see brake lights and turn signals. But yet, it was a traffic violation. However, interesting to note that the violation cited was a “City of Plano Code of Ordinance”. Not a Texas state traffic violation. Also on the ticket – “No record of this violation will be sent to your insurance company or the Department of Public Safety Division of Motor Vehicles.” So did I break a traffic law or not? Glad its not being reported or recorded, but certainly seems like a simple money grab.

  19. Butt hole says:
    December 30, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    I just watched my video for the my red light ticket offense and laughed out loud. What an idiot I am.

    May the person who invented these rot in hell.

  20. Not: James Patterson says:
    January 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    we should just use satellites to track each other and give speeding tickets everytime we go 1 mph over then we’d have the $ for all the hours we’d would be paying to deal with all the employees that rushed into work that morning to mail out the tickets to themselves.

  21. Charles says:
    January 12, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Robert, if I understand all this, then we CAN NOT take Deferred Adjudication. However, this red light incident is NOT reported so as to go against my driving record or my insurance?

  22. Ken says:
    January 14, 2010 at 3:19 am

    man it is money making business by fail government of California for sure.

    I am from San Francisco visiting someone in Los Angles , where I got ticket of $445 for turning right on red.

    According to photos & video I did everything right brake on till limit line, looking at left (according to photo) & rolling at unharm speed. I knew I took very very safe right turn but complete stop meaning stop at least 6 seconds otherwise still it is rolling stop.

    Here in San Jose you can make rolling right turn even in front of cop if you are doing very safe & brakes are on during the turn. I mean during morning hours & night no dog will be there so making very very slow right is okay by officers but not camera.

    It is clearly money making scam. CA budget problems are so deep that if selected official can’t work out deal on budget (both parties) why they are still at the post?

    $445 is call taking money from working people and giving away to third world to flight war, which has no value or meaning.

    Government & officials are sucker punch, morons, ass** no less or more. all will go to hell for sure..enough for now..

  23. Brian says:
    January 25, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Humble, TX – Just got a “rolling right on red” ticket. I’m going to pay it, $75, and I’ll pay the $4 “convenience fee” for online payment. None of the 3 photos or the video show the alleged (me) driver. I’ve been putting this off for a few weeks, getting ticked off at my lack of rights or options and the inevitable futility of fighting it even though I am in the right simply because the burden of proof should not be on me to prove my innocence. Kudos to the rotten system that allows this to happen. Had the letter that I received not indicated that payment was an admission of guilt or liability I would outright pay the stupid fine and not lose a wink of sleep over it.

  24. FFA says:
    February 22, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I got one of these $75 Texas “civil penalties” in the mail last month. The town (in the Dallas area) sent me two photos and a link to a video. The video actually came in handy because it demonstrated that another vehicle (an tall 18 wheeler) not only made an illegal turn in front of me but obstructed my view of the traffic signal in the yellow stage for a solid 3 seconds.

    I opted for a hearing and explained to the hearing administrator what happened. I also showed him that the city ordinance contained a provision for “road hazards” that make a stop at the red light too unsafe. The provision discussed weather as an example but didn’t rule out trucks making unsafe lane changes and illegal turns with no turn signal.

    The guy was very polite and cordial and listened to my story.

    Then, he looked at the video a couple of more times and asked, “So you’re saying that the truck cut you off and blocked your view of the traffic light before it turned?”
    I said, “Exactly.”

    Lo and behold, he dismissed my summons.

    Yeah, these cameras stink, and so do the towns that use them, but I figured I’d tell the story to show that you really can win, at least in some cases. The whole hearing took about 7 minutes.

  25. R Hardin says:
    February 24, 2010 at 2:29 am

    I was awarded a citation from a red light camera at 28th and Decatur Ave (just under the railroad overpass). There are NO signs there. Am I still liable to pay? I thought there is a requirement for a sign to alert an idividual if they are being video’d.

  26. Nate says:
    February 27, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    I have heard one lawyer in Dallas who received a “Red Light Tax(I mean Ticket)” and he fought on the grounds that the company that operated the cameras was not a licensed with the State I believe. He won and apparently the city of Dallas had to refund two years worth of red light tickets to anyone who had been fined in that time frame. This may be an option. We could request proof of License to Operate all cameras or that specific camera at that intersection.

  27. FFA says:
    March 8, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    R. Hardin, I think there does have to be a sign posted. Is that Fort Worth? Check the city ordinanace they claim you violated or the state law governing use of the cameras to be sure and bring a copy to the hearing. Hope you win!

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